Script
Here is The Daily FM summary of the Lex Fridman Podcast that aired on Tuesday June 30th. Lex spoke with historian Anthony Kaldellis about the empire usually called “Byzantine,” and Kaldellis’s central argument was that this name badly distorts history. The people of Constantinople did not think they were Byzantines. They called themselves Romans, lived under Roman law, and understood their state as the direct continuation of the Roman Empire until the fall of Constantinople in 1453. [1]
They began by zooming out across more than 2,000 years of Roman history, from the legendary founding of Rome in 753 BC, through the kings, the Republic, Augustus and the imperial monarchy, the shift of power eastward, and the survival of Constantinople long after the western empire fell. Kaldellis emphasized that many “turning points” historians name, like the split between east and west or the fall of the western empire, were really long processes rather than single clean breaks.
A major theme was why the empire lasted so long. Kaldellis argued that the Roman state was not held together simply by pride or propaganda, but by a functioning political compact. Emperors presented themselves as tireless servants of the public good, and, surprisingly, he thinks they often acted in ways consistent with that rhetoric. They needed to: almost half of Constantinople’s emperors were violently overthrown, and the constant threat of coups, riots, or civil war acted as a brutal check on power. Lex and Kaldellis compared this to a kind of “perpetual referendum,” where public gatherings in places like the Hippodrome allowed the people to cheer, boo, demand changes, and sometimes help decide an emperor’s fate.
Taxation came up again and again as the engine of the state. Kaldellis described Diocletian’s reforms as creating the administrative foundation of the later Roman Empire: a census, more systematic taxation, a larger bureaucracy, and a clearer separation between civil and military administration. This tax system funded the army, tied local communities to the state, and made even remote villages part of the same imperial machinery.
They also discussed Constantine, whom Kaldellis ranked as the most consequential emperor, not because he was morally admirable, but because founding Constantinople and backing Christianity changed world history. Constantine was ruthless, even murderous within his own family, but his decisions transformed the empire. Christianity, Kaldellis argued, was partly absorbed by the Roman state rather than simply triumphing over it, and over centuries it became inseparable from Roman identity, though never identical to it.
Justinian received a more mixed treatment. He codified Roman law, rebuilt Hagia Sophia, and reconquered parts of the west, but Kaldellis criticized his overextension, brutality during the Nika riots, and the burden he left successors. Heraclius, too, was treated with caution: heroic in defeating Persia, but also tied to the crisis that weakened the empire before the Arab conquests.
One of the most memorable points was Kaldellis’s insistence that Rome’s crises were usually sudden external shocks: Arabs, Turks, Crusaders, Normans, and others. What needs explaining, he said, is not just collapse, but the empire’s repeated ability to stabilize, regroup, grow, and survive. His larger takeaway was that durable institutions, credible rhetoric, taxation, shared identity, and responsiveness to public pressure can hold a society together for astonishing lengths of time, even in one of history’s most dangerous geopolitical neighborhoods. Thank you for listening to Lex Fridman Podcast in 3 minutes from The Daily FM. See you next time!
- Lex Fridman Podcast: #498 – Anthony Kaldellis: Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Rise & Fall of Empires
...a conversation with Anthony Kaldelis, a historian of the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as the Byzantine Empire. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description@lexfriedman.com sponsors it's the best way to support this podcast we got Upwork for hiring quality freelancers, Fin for customer service, AI agents, BetterHelp for mental health, Element for electrolytes, Shopify for selling stuff online, and our old friend Perplexity for curiosity driven knowledge exploration. Choose wisely my friends. And if I may call you as such, my fellow Roman history enthusiasts. It is not always true that the memes on the interwebs carry within them an accurate depiction of human nature, but when that meme said that all men think about the Roman Empire, it is in fact true. Anyway, now on to the full ash reads. I tried to make them interesting, b...
